About his posting. He hasn't convinced me that I should post that way, but he certainly can if he wants. That way, if he does talk about the death penalty he doesn't lump me in with him. Like he said, I am a little iffy about the death penalty (and he certainly isn't).
I've pretty much gone in a complete circle over the issue of capital punishment. Four years ago I probably would have been in favor of capital punishment for murder and treason. I was 16 and probably was just going along with conservative Christian bandwagon without giving it much thought.
Last year I would have been unequivocally against capital punishment. It is a merciless system, and to me it needs to be absolutely foolproof. We should never hear about someone convicted of a capital crime being acquitted on the basis of DNA evidence. That should not happen. It means we could have wrongfully put other people to death. Yes, the Old Testament mosaic law required capital punishment for a myriad of crimes. But that was a theocracy; and even then charges could only be upheld on the basis of two or three witnesses. I would have definitely told you that in our present situation, capital punishment just isn't justified.
Now, I don't know. I hear the arguments; theological, pragmatical, and otherwise. It is clearly mandated in mosaic law (and Kaleb could tell you a lot about that); penologists will tell you about the problems of recidivism; forensic psychologists will tell you that most murderers and rapists are psychopaths who are incurable and unable to re-enter society; etc. etc. And yet, I must say that it would take more than arguments alone to convince me. It isn't a logical problem I have with it. It is more like an emotional barrier.
I don't want to agree with implementing capital punishment. But I am starting to see the merit of capital punishment in clear cases of 1st degree murder. It would be stubborn for me to continue to insist that it isn't justice. And as much as I dislike America (and I do, I really do; it's an abomination), I will concede that treason is a legitimate capital crime.
I don't have the time (and you don't have the patience, I am sure) to go through all my problems with theonomy. I'll just say one thing. Theonomy sounds great at first - the Word of God is authoritative and should be carried out in all areas of both private and civil life. That isn't too hard to swallow, until you think about all the people we would have to put to death (the list is substantial).
Beerbohm
6 years ago
All I can say is that, had we been faithful and kept a theonomic structure to our society, we wouldn't have to put all these people to death, as it were, all at once. In addition, we arguably would have much fewer to put to death because of the intrinsically powerful deterrent effect of capital punishment. After re-instituting real capital punishment (different from the joke we call death row today), we will probably have much fewer opportunities to mistakenly convict people of capital crimes - people just won't be that interested in taking the risk.
ReplyDeleteBut, no matter how we feel about it, there is no question that capital punishment is the method God instituted to deal with these types of crimes. It's sort of like God's sovereignty: like it or not, that's the way it is.
This would be fun to discuss more sometime...
It strikes me that treason becomes difficult to pin down in a democracy, or at least in a real democracy... I'm reminded of the discussion a few weeks ago about how since Congress hasn't actually declared war, half of America can be openly opposed to it and it doesn't matter. Does that make sense?
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, this nation was founded as a republic not a democracy, and there is a huge difference.
ReplyDeleteAlso it seems dangerous to say that if we followed God's way of doing things(regarding punishment), the loss would be great therefore it shouldn't be considered. May I remind you that the people that would be lost in upholding God's standard of punishment would all be murderers, thieves, and criminals? People who otherwise would be living in a jail cell that is nicer than my house, eating three warm meals a day, sleeping and watching television, and burning up tax dollars that could be put to better use in a million different ways. Not to mention while in prison they receive, at no cost at all, a first rate college education while you and I have to shell out thousands of dollars for ours. Meanwhile, good men like my Dad, who have committed no crime in their entire lives are working all day every day, earning money honestly to support his family on top of supporting these criminals' so-called 'punishment'. Where's the justice in that?
I have a proposition. Please, hear me out. Yes, i know that i'm only 14. yes, you can now close your gaping mouths and stop telling me to shut up. i implore not to stop reading this comment on that basis, my age or my maturity. perhaps i do have it all wrong. and i mean ALL wrong. but let us reconsider:
ReplyDeleteCurtis, i don't know whether you are right or wrong, but let us remember that there is no rock solid slab in the New Testament that affirms the death penalty. No absolute truth for it. And, um, if we were true perfect Christians, all of us, we wouldn't need a government.Remember, our country and its constitution and it's beautiful laws and beautiful ideas must have one thing and only one thing for the whole thing to work. GOOD People. That idea was the given fact in the debates for the radification of the Constitution.(by the way, in omnibus at Trinitas we're currently studying the federal/antifederal papers and the whole revolution.)
Oh, and one more thing to consider and then i will shut up for you people who are really ticked off at me. i challenge you to remember the country you speak of and live in as aposed to, say, China, Korea, or dare i say... Africa. If any of y'all saw the top 40 pictures of 2008 my bro Kaleb had, i think you may know what i'm talking about. just remember how blessed we really are. remember the fact that you have more than one copy of a book some would die for to give to their village. the book?i think you know it. if you don't...... come on.it's the very Word of God.
I'm done now. sorry. forgive my rediculousness.
Kano T
Rob,
ReplyDelete"...had we been faithful and kept a theonomic structure to our society, we wouldn't have to put all these people to death, as it were, all at once."
Oh, that is too much! Most Christians today who make such claims can't name all the capital offenses in the OT without a concordance. Can you Curtis?
Here's what always gets me: did Christ die to save homosexuals and prostitutes and people who perform abortions? If He did, how do you imagine Christians in a theonomist state delivering the Gospel to such people?
Christians say: "Hey friend, you need to believe in Christ, come forward and admit all your capital offenses, then you need to be executed. The way of the Lord is mercy and peace."
Unbelievers say: "Wow, that's sounds great!"
And then the Church will just grow and grow.
-Ah, you know who it is.